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Hello Slatka -

Well I think the rain might be coming here, atleast it is thundering and the sky is black! Oh, I hate rain but I also hate this humidity, I can take the heat just not the humidity.

Sorry to hear about your offer. You know the old saying if at first you don't suceed try and try again. You just got to keep going back and forth and hopefully one of the offers will be accepted. I guess you can apply that saying to our ttc journey as well. :)

Now last but not least. Please know that my thoughts are with you this weekend. I know how hard it is going to be for you. I am sending you as much positive energy and good thoughts as I can. It is not silly of you to have "planned out" these dates in your head and where you would be in your preg. it is only normal. I did the exact same thing. You are a very strong women (whether you think so or not), you will make it though this weekend and hopefully have a good time. Just remember to allow time for yourself. You deserve it and you should allow it. If you need to cry, cry, if you need to scream, scream. Whatever it takes to make it easier on you do it!

((((((hugs))))))))))

I will talk to you when you get back. I will definatly miss you and our lenghtly posts. Boy we are both very long winded hehe.

Take care and good luck over the weekend and with the bid!

Liz

We have 4 1/2 acres of land in the woods. My dh purchased it back in 98 and he build a 40 x 40 garage with a 1000 sq foot appartment above it. It is very cozy and beautiful. What we are doing is now building our own house on the same land. We designed the house ourselves, went to an architect and had the plans drawn. My husband along with family, friends and a few sub-contractors are building the house. My husband is getting sub-contractors for a couple of the major jobs, for the most part he is doing 95% of the work himself. He is very gifted in that sense, he dosen't do contruction for a living (he is actually an airplane mechanic), but he knows what he is doing. He has learned a great deal from him Dad and Uncle who both built their houses themselve. He built the garage and apt himself and did an awesome job. He is now ready for the real deal of our new house. Its a big job, but I have no doubt he will do a remarkable job. We live outside of Reading in a rural area. We both grew up in the county and well you know we just can't leave. Not to mention his job is here and that is after all what pays for the house. :) I help of course, just not the bread winner.

I am so glad you got an appt. with an re. It makes a remarkable difference when you feel like you are being heard. I love my fertility center. It makes me feel so much better then I did when I was just dealing with ob and gyn. I 100% believe that a fertility center is just more compasionate, they seem to really hear you, they understand or atleast they seem to understand exactly how you feel. It was kinda irronic for me, I had gone to this gyn office when I was younger, switched and then when I got pg went back because my insurance was not accepted at the other one (we got married). After the mc and the 3 months of hell with the gyn dept. they finally transferred me to the fertility center there. When the women called me she told me that if I didn't mind meeting with here she would be able to see me quicker then the Dr. and we could get things rolling. I was more then willing. When I got there and she came out to get us I looked at her and she at me and said do you remember me? Here when I was 19 I had an abnormal pap and they had to do a biopsy, she was my nurse and had been my nurse for years. She is wonderful a women, so very compasionate and understanding. From that moment on I knew I was going to be happy there. She is the infertility coordinator. I am not sure how other offices work, but at mine I talk to her and not the doc on a reg basis. I do know that my doc reviews [b][/b] and gives her the orders on what to do with the patients. I am sure that is pretty normal. It is also reassuring to be to know he knows what is happening with his patients at all times. I was also double reassured when after my appt. with the doc in June the next day my nurse told me that I needed to go for more blood work, when I asked why she said the doc went over your chart with a fine tooth comb, as he does all his patients and realized that 2 of the test that the gyn doc had written for me to have done where not done. She noted them in my chart, but never sent me for the bloodwork. I can not express how much better this makes me feel. I am sure that you will probably experience some of the very same postive feelings once you meet with your re.

Sorry about af. I was really hoping it was not true. That is very strange that she is early, I can see why you would be wondering if you did ovulate this month. I must say I am really curious to see what happens with your re appointment because so much of what you describe relates to me and my issues. I don't know why I just have this feeling that your answers are right around the corner. Of course that dosen't mean that you will be able to get pg immediately, but it is sure a good start. I know it was like a ton of weight lifted off my shoulders when I found out about the hormone problem. Sure it is still worrysome, however atleast I know what I am dealing with to some extent. Explanation helps to ease the soul I like to think.

Please feel free to tell me anything. I find your insights into many things very interesting. You have really made me think about alot of things lately. I am still thinking about the whole fairness thing, you got my mind working overtime. :)

I forgot to tell you that I go for a baseline us Thursday morning. If all is well and I have no cysts the doc wants me to begin the Repronex using 2 viles a day instead of 1. I am so nervous about this. I am so worried I have cysts and the cycle will be cancelled. I am trying not to think about it, but of course that dosen't work very well for us controlling folk who want what we want now. :)

Anyway, I just wanted to let you know where I was at. You know one more thing, I did think of something postive about our bfn. We are only 3 days apart on our cycles! :)

Take care
Liz

Hi Liz –

On my way out this morning, but I had to say thanks for your message; you’re always inspiring to me! Someday we should print out our dialogues and really make a book! We will look back one day (perhaps one day soon) and observe where our discussions have taken us, and remember our paths to pregnancy.

I’ll be sure to keep you posted on the house offer; we hope to hear from them over the next few days (though not of course with bad news! No more of that, please!). And I’ll fill you in on the wedding – I’m trying to revel in the fact that I can have a glass of wine or a martini and I can wear a slim dress and high heels (I would prefer the other image of me pregnant, but I have to make some positive thoughts).

My husband is an aerospace engineer and a pilot who is building his own plane (on computer so far – no $ for parts and a hangar quite yet!). Of course your husband is into airplanes, too! I see the future with them buying/building a plane together – uh-oh! My husband and his dad built a cottage on Lake Muskoka in Ontario, Canada together – the plumbing, wiring, woodwork, all that stuff. It’s amazing to me to be able to see something built from scratch like that. I know it was important to them to make it with their own hands. This sounds a lot like what you and your husband are doing with your new house (you’ll have to send photos once you begin). It will really be YOURS, then, if that makes sense: he’ll have created it. Our husbands sound like they have similar interests (or is it just that they are men??!!).

Do you fly? My husband takes me up (he flies out of Freeway Airport near Bowie, MD) sometimes and I have “flown” for a little bit; I do sometimes get a little sick from the lack of a pressurized cabin in a 2 or 4 seater plane. But you just take a bag with you!

I’ve done some research online, and asked Dr. Jacobs on this site, and think I have Luteal Phase Defect. This is where my cycle is mistiming in terms of hormones and it results in trouble with conception and with m/c when conception occurs. Instead of the 14 days past ovulation the uterus needs to prepare for implantation and maintenance of an embryo, I have only 11 or 12 days – not enough for the progesterone to be high enough. So what may be happening is that I am fertilizing the egg, but it implants, then is washed out with the menstrual cycle that comes too early. It sounds like I need more progesterone to lengthen the luteal phase to 14 days and/or to have my ovulation stimulated earlier, at day 14 instead of what my body does, at day 16 or 17. Now, the trick is to get my OB to listen to me and to hear my descriptions of my cycles: I’ve told her all about getting my period early, etc., but she didn’t seem to care. The only thing I can do on my own until I see the RE on August 25 (a lifetime away) is to try an over the counter progesterone cream which might lengthen the luteal phase just enough. Do you have any info on this kind of cream? Worth a try until I can get more intensive help. I am so angry that my OB didn’t investigate this enough! Do you know anything about luteal phase defect? It may be some variant of the hormonal trouble you had/have???

Well, though I won’t be here until Friday or Saturday, know that I will be thinking of you on Thursday as you go for your baseline. You won’t have any cysts, I’m sure, and you can begin again. I know this is scary, but it will be worth it; you have already withstood a lot of pain, discomfort and disappointment to achieve pregnancy. You’ll be ready and healthy for this next round – keep me posted on the results. And yes, we’re only 3 days apart now (I feel like I’m getting closer in sync with you and some of the women here on the forum!).

Take good care of yourself – lots of water and think cool thoughts. Talk to you soon – we’ll store up our book-length discussions for a few days! Peace to you Liz –

Slatka

I just wanted to say have a safe and good trip.

Relax, have fun (as much as possible)


I will be sure to write you a small book to read when you get back. hehe.

Take care,
Liz

Hello Slatka -
Welcome back, I missed you!

I hope you had a good trip and hopefully it was not too stressful on you.

I have read a great deal about Leutal Phase Defect. I think it is definatly something that you should check into with all the symptoms that you have. I believe that they pretty much classify anthing as Leutal Phase Defect if you have a problem in the Leutal Phase of your cycle. My re just told me the other week when I asked why my Estrodiol levels dropped so quickly from 438 to 105 in the Leutal Phase she told me it had to do with the Leutal Phase Defect I have. So, I guess that means I have some kind of Leutal Phase Defect.

That is amazing with our husbands. Sounds to me like they would get along great! My husband does not fly, he started to take flying lessons years back, but never pursued it, instead he just fixes them. He works for a large clinically lab, they have a flight department at the Reading Airport. It's ironic that you mentioned Bowie, MD. My husbands Sister used to live in Bowie, I am alittle familier with the area.

Any word on the house offer? I am crossing my fingers for you and dh. I don't want any more bad news for you, only good, positve news!

When we begin the house I will be sure to send you pictures, it is quite an undertaking. DH is getting really stressed these past couple of days. Too much to do with the house and on top of that he is working 11-12 hour days at his full time job and he worries about me and the whole "trying" thing.

I had a rough day yesterday. I am feeling down, depressed and plain out scared of my new cycle. Wed. I had an u/s (there was a scheduling screw up, so I went Wed morning). Everything looked good, not cysts so I was given the green light to re-enter the roller coaster ride on Thurs. When I got home Thurs. my meds arrived only for me to see that they went up $130.00 from a month ago. I called to find out and they said as of July 1 the Repronex went from $44.90 a vile to $59.60 a vile. Wow, what a jump. Needless to say, that did not make my mood any better. I swear I cried for hours last night and didn't sleep much more then a couple of hours. The worrys are growing, the house, they tyring to get pg and now the money. I feel frustrated!

Anyways, I go on Monday for another u/s and bw to see if I have any follicles. I am also nervous about this since I will have been on the meds 4 days already. Last month they saw me in 2 days after I began the Repronex and that was only on 1 vile. This month I am on 2 viles (yes, $120.00 a day for meds). DH keeps telling me that they know what they are doing. I know that too, but it still dosen't stop me from worrying. You know the routine well I am sure.

I am going to run and get something done around here, my house is a disaster!

Liz

HI Liz --

Of course, I promised myself that I would go and get ready for the wedding this afternoon, but I couldn't resist writing. I may be uncharacteristically brief!!!! We'll see about that.

Yes, send pics of the house as it goes. It will be a lot of work, but so fulfilling, I think, to watch it "grow." And I totally think our husbands would get along -- jsut put them in front of a plane or throw some Flying magazines at them and see what happens! My hisband, Sonny, is right next to me in this whole ttc (well, literally, he has to be, ha, ha, but emotionally as well). I know he holds it in to be suportive of me, but he wants our child just as much; I appreciate so much that he doesn't see it as "my" problem -- it is our problem and we will get thorugh it. He is ALWAYS positive; I am often negative; we work well together. So I can understand how trying this must be for you and your husband as a family (I call my husband and I a family, even though that traditionally means kids as well. I feel we are a family together, not just a couple).

Again, so glad that there are no cysts for you, but am outraged about the cost of the vials of Repronex. Just outraged. Though the desire to have a child overwhelms the financial aspects of the journey, still, it's only natural to feel panicked (and, yes, angry) about it. I feel like the Reproduction sciences are a business: and we are vulnerable. Yes, there are kind, caring people within this 'industry' but it is run at a HUGE profit....and we will pay it because it may bring us what we value most. I'm so sorry...let's hope you'll only need this month's worth of the meds. Look at it that way.

I am taking B-6 and ascorbic acid (vitamin C) in addition to my regular prenatal vitamin. I read a few studies that have shown increased amounts of Vt. C have "corrected" the luteal phase defect in SOME women enough for them to conceive, implant and be pregnant. In 53% of women in this one study, the C increased the the serum P to above 10 ng/ml -- I was at 6 last cycle. Hey, it can't hurt and it is something I can do for myself as I wait to see the RE. As high as 35% of women who have fertility problems have some sort of luteal phase defect, apparently. If we have it, it is, in some small way, good news in that it can be 'corrected" with intervention and time (as opposed to have poor quality eggs, for example). I'm going to do more reading and investigating. It would be good -- however weird that sounds -- to be able to name what is wrong.

I hope by now you've let some of the stres go, though I know it never truly goes. It is just subsumed under other everyday distractions. WEll, I really must go now. I should be back Monday or maybe Sunday, dpending on traffic and when we arrive back to DC! Good luck on Monday, if I don't write before then.

Take care, enjoy the weekend (I'm in NJ, so much rain here! But I did hit some sales this morning and bought some clothes, saying, well, if I were pregnant, I would never fit into these!).

talk to you soon and enjoy those expensive meds! Have them with a fine champagne and strawberries and get your monies worth! Ha Ha!
Slatka

Good morning Slatka and Welcome Back

How was your weekend? Hopefully it all went well, I was thinking about you, sending you lots of postive thoughts!

Sorry I did not reply sooner, this weekend was hectic for us. Sat. we had a surprise 30th B-day party for a friend and Sun. we spent the day working outside in preperation for the ground breaking. I can hardly believe it is less than a month away. We have got a lot of work to do, but than again don't we all. haha I keep telling my husband I feel like I have 3 jobs, my work, my work at home and of course making a baby is a full time job for me. haha.

So, how did you make out with the house offer?

The vit. C and B studies is very interesting. I have actually heard about of that before, never tried it. You will have to let me know if you notice any differences. Anything is worth a shot, just one thing.... I have also read that to much of certain vit (not sure which ones) can cause more damage than good. Not sure if this is at all true after all you know how it is one says good the next says bad. Why they can't just agree I will never know. If you are diagnosed with Leutal Phase Defect it would be a step in the right direction. I know something like this is never a good thing and we all wish it wasen't true, but on the flip side atleast you have an idea of what is wrong and can work on "fixing" the problem. I know I personally feel so much better when I have an answer, it gives me hope knowing they have figured it out so to say. I hate the question of what is wrong, it makes me feel like such a failure and extremely helpless.

I am really gald to hear Sonny is such a great support system for you. My husband, Frank, is great as well, sometimes I feel he just dosen't seem to get it, other times he is 100% there. I think alot of that has to do with his thoughts are in a million different directions. Between working 11-12 hour days and then working till dark at home he is often really tired, not to mention the constant thought he doing trying to get things in order to start building. All in all I consider myself very lucky (and you too) to have such a wonderful husband to love and support me. He wants a baby as much as I do, he has often told me that "whatever it takes" to achieve this we will do and do it together. I know sometimes the money scares him, but deep inside we both know it will all be ok, we will make it, just as you will!

I had an appointment this morning. Everything is just fine so far. I have 3 follicles, they are all small and around the same size, so there is no way to determine yet if they will all mature for ovulation or not. I will get my Estordiol levels back early afternoon. I always hate this wait, the day seems to drag. The doc is hoping that my Estrodiol is up eariler this cycle then last. That is the whole idea on the 2 viles a day, he is hoping that my overies are producing more Estrodiol which in turn can produce higher quality eggs. We shall see, I am crossing my fingers.

I have let some of the stress go, I actually did not have much of a choice, you have to stay positive or this can never happen. I know that and no matter how hard it is I have to pick myself up after I feel down, dust myself off and hold on for the next ride. It also helps that my Estrodiol has gone up, that is always a mood inhancer. I really can tell when it is down, my moods are horrible and I hate the world. (not normally how I am), so all in all I have been feeling better the past couple of days.

The financial obulgations of this journey are unbelievable. I honestly can understand how some people just can't aford it. I consider Frank and I lucky to have the little bit we do to spend on this, there are so many people out there that want a child and just can not afford to go through this. It makes me sick! Oh, well enough about that or I will get all fired up again! haha

I must run, get some work done.
Glad you are back, I missed chatting with you.

Take care,
Liz

Hi Liz --

It was great to be away for awhile -- a major distraction and relaxing to be with Sonny without the normal routine of goodbye in the morning and dinner at night -- but it is nice to be back, too. Except for the laundry and unpacking. That is never good. Are you guys going away at all this summer? Or, understandably, is the house-building going to eat up any and all free time? We're taking short weekend trips (like this weekend we are headed up to Toronto Friday-late Sunday night to visit Sonny's parents -- why am I even bothering to unpack right now? Who knows) because that's what we can afford time-wise and $-wise. Even if you guys do the weekend camping thing again, that helps to re-charge the batteries.

You may have gotten your call by now: hope the estrodiol (sorry my spelling!) is high! With all my reading lately it comforts me to realize that each cycle is different, that we get a renewed chance every month for a healthy ovulation, that LPD doesn't necessarily occur every single cycle. IN other words, even if past cycles weren't great, this one has every chance of being, especially with the medication increase.

Well, interestingly enough, since I have been taking the B-6 and vitamin C, my mood has improved a lot. I'm waiting to see if this just co-incided with the fact that we were on a mini-vacation; we'll see if the better mood remains through the week. I know B vitamins do help improve one's mood...I'm glad you've been feeling better, too. It's amazing how tuned into our hormones we are, how much we are at their mercy, in a way.

Yeah, I know that sometimes too much of a vitamin isn't good. I think that is vitamin E and perhaps C as well. I'm taking 750mg; the vitamins come in 500mg pills, so I take a tablet and a half. It's really not that much, esp. since the dosage they give you starts at 500mg. The study recommended 750mg. I think if you took like 5 pills trying to increase the effect you'd be having a problem. I'm sticking to the rec. dosage and vary it depending on diet (if I have a lot of OJ, for example, I'll take less). I jsut want to feel I'm doing something.

Oh, the forms for the fertility center came while I was away; of course, I filled them out immediately! Just records relating to menstrual/pregnancy history, that kind of stuff. I'm ready to go! Of course, part of me dares to wish that I won't need that appointment; af is due around August 16 (I think) and the appt. is the 25th. Well, I can always hope.

I'm glad Frank is a good support to you; it sounds like he always has been. Yes, he sometimes panics re: $, but that is only normal at times. I wonder if men are really different than us. I mean, I never really subscribed to that "men are from mars" thing; I just figured men think and act like women, with some natural differences. I believe we are equal, so I guess I just translate that into we think equally. Or perhaps it is the men I have been with, who I find intellectually compatible. I don't know. Anyway, there are times where I realize that Sonny just thinks differently -- not better or worse or slower or anything -- just differently. I tend to hold on to stuff, linger over problems, emotions, issues, where Sonny will process it and move on. He doesn't sometimes get it, as you say Frank sometimes doesn't fully get it. I don't think it's a lack of feeling or caring or understanding on their part; it's that they are not exactly wired to get it, if that makes sense. And it's frustrating. I worry about the time that is going by with each month, each cycle; Sonny can't see why I would even worry about that: it will happen when it happens, who cares when (within reason; he wants to have a baby as soon as we can).

What I appreciate is that he tries; he works so hard for us, long hours -- you know what this is like. And he is still able to deal with me!

That's our challenge: to move confidently through this incredibly emotionally and financially stressful journey without feeling stress! It's an almost impossible task. How come we're not those women who conceive without effort, without trying, without even knowing or wanting it! But I can't think about that, wishing for what I can't have. We all do the best with what we have -- and I think we're doing a damn fine job.

So glad to be back for several days before I go off again for the weekend (oh, my jet-setting lifestyle!). I'm happy to be catching up with you, Liz. Take care and keep me posted re: estrodial and life in general.
Slatka

Hi Slatka,

Glad to have you back, even if only for a couple of days. :) I am glad to hear you made it though the weekend. It is always so nice to get away, but I do always love coming home too. Frank and I are taking another camping trip for a weekend in Aug. When we get back on Sun 8/20 we will be breaking ground on Mon. 8/21, so that is very exciting. Every year we plan a trip to the lake for boating and camping with anyone who wants to go from his job. It is always a great time, everyone has a good time and look forward to it every year. We have been doing it for 4 years now and it has become a huge success!

Well, the results are in... My estrodiol is at 157 which is up from what it was last month. She seems satisfied with that, so we shall see. I go on Wed. morning for post colital test to check my mucus and see if there is any problems with the mucus killing the sperm or anything out of normal. The test is kinda interesting we have to have sex 2-3 hours before (5 am, wow will that be a hard one) keep my hips elevated for 20 min and then go in to the office at 8am. The doc will take a sample of the mucus and look at it under a microscope to see the sperm. They verify that there is sperm and that it is moving across the slide and not just moving in place (hope that makes sense). They want to do the test on Wed. in case I need to do IUI we will still have time to do it this month. I will be on day 11 and they believe my mucus should be good by then, if not well then we have a problem and IUI may be done. So, although the news was good I am still very nervous. Go figure, nervous and ttc, I think that is all ttc is about anymore. haha

I used to take the B vitamins to help with the depression thing. My doc had recommened it a couple years back when I wanted off the meds for depression. I faithfully took them for a couple years (until I got preg) and I can honestly say it helped wonders for my depression. I felt like a completly different person. I never really thought about them for ttc, you are right it is worth a shot. I actually might try it myself. Did you say it was B-6? How much are you taking? I do take a prenatal from the doc, so I want to be sure I won't be getting too much.

Great to hear you got your forms. I bet that makes you feel good knowing you are getting closer to getting some answers. I know it always makes me feel so good to see the doc, I feel like I am doing something and moving forward.

Before I forget while I was waiting to have my blood drawn today I saw a sign that said "Every Journey Begins With One Step" I thought that was awesome and so true. I think I will keep reminding myself of that everyday. Small steps, thats all we can do right?

Sonny sounds so much like Frank. Its amazing to me when I read your posts about him I sit hear shaking my head because it sounds like Frank. We really are lucky women. They are lucky too after all after all we love them and allow them to share this wonderful journey with us! haha

Well, I must run, get some work done. Have fun unpacking, I hate that part :(

Talk to you soon,
Liz

Hi Liz --

For some reason, this morning has been chock-full of activity, but none of it very exciting: laundry, cleaning, exercise, making dinner prep...I'm having lunch with teaching colleagues so maybe that's what sped up my morning process!

I'm glad your estrodial has gone up from last month; that's a good sign. I was laughing in sympathy about your upcoming post-coital test! Boy, would that make me feel sexy! Dead early in the morning, doing handstands afterwards, then running to the doc to be examined. That's what they have to do, though. ANd if it makes a difference in getting you pregnant, then so be it. If you do it with good humor, then you can get through it all. And I'm sure you will. It sounds like they have a good "back-up" plan for you -- that gives you excellent chances for this month. Hope you don't have to go through IUI and can conceive "naturally", but you at least have that option this month, which is very good.

I read that taking between 50mg and 200mg of B-6 is helpful with LPD in some women; I am taking about 150mg (the vitamins come in 50mg tablets). I get a little in my prenatal, but the B vitamin in that pill is mostly folic acid, of course. I'm taking about 500mg of vitamin C, as I get the other 250mg in foods throughout the day. My mom said that over 1000mg of C is not good, at least in her experience, so that's where I'm being careful. She gets a little rash when she has too much C, and that warns her to cut down on the citrus! I would assume I have the same "warning" mechanism so I'm being careful. Try the B-6, if you aren't already getting it in the prenatal; within that dosage, it can't hurt.

I'm going to try the ovulation predictor again this cycle. I want to gather more "evidence" about my luteal phase, how long it is, when I ovulate, if it is consistently late (CD 17 or 18) each month, etc. I can almost always roughly guess when I am ovulating, but the urine test is more accurate. I'll probably start testing maybe Friday/Saturday, as I don't expect to ovulate until at the earliest August 1 or 2 (Tues/Wed).

When we visit Sonny's parents this weekend, we'll also be seeing some friends who are coming across from Nova Scotia. She's about 25, her husband is 30; they got pregnant on their honeymoon. They were married 2 months before us (they in April 2004, we in June 2004). The pregnancy was wanted, but unexpected and they have a wonderful little boy who is about a year and 7 months. They know about the m/c and that we are ttc. My fear is that she is pregnant again (she's so young and apparently fertile!); I know they want more kids but she's been relatively quiet about their plans because I think she doesn't want to hurt me. I think she wants me to be pregnant first. I have to say, it would kill me if she were pregnant. I would be happy for them, but...well, you know. She's a partier, so I have to see if she drinks this weekend -- I don't think she would come out and tell me otherwise. And I haven't seen Sonny's parents since the m/c; in fact the last time we saw them, I conceived (maybe Canada is a charm -- let's hope so!). They are so far away, we can't afford to visit that often.

Well, it will be fine; I know it will. You know, I don't know if I could do this whole thing without Sonny; if he was any other man, I don't think it would be as bearable.This whole journey has brought us pain, but also strength together. We -- like you guys -- have been so sorely tested so early in our marriages...and we are surviving something that would rip (and does rip) other couples apart. It can only go up from here, Sonny says; it can only get better and brighter for us.

Well, I'll talk to you soon. I want to say I'll be thinking of you during your post-coital test on Wed., but that somehow doesn't seem quite appropriate -- ha, ha! I mean, I hope everything turns out well.

Take care! Slatka

Hi Slatka -

Thank you so much for your support, I am actually very nervous about tomorrow. I know I probably should just relax, but you know how it is. Your mind starts to go all over the place. I am so bloated today, I feel like a balloon. Just stick a needle in me and I will burst. I didn't have bloating to this degree last cycle so who knows. I will ask about it tomorrow.

Talk about "planned" sex. I feel and so does Frank that I am a circus animal that has to perform at a certain time. Frank gets up for work around 4:30, but I already explained to him that we have to wait till 5:15 to 5:30 to let it happen. This really does take the romance out of it. I just keep telling myself it is for a good cause and god willing the outcome will be what we are after. Keeping my fingers crossed on that one.

That is great you are going to see Sonny's family this weekend. Also, maybe since you got lucky (literally) there last time it will happen again. My Aunt who had some trouble conceiving, had a miscarriage, had a healthy boy, had another miscarriage and then another heathly boy (this was 24 years ago) swears that you must go someplace other then your home to conceive. Her one boy was conceived at her in-laws and the other at her parents. She thinks it has something to do with your mind thinking that you might get caught, it keeps the suspense alive and the stress of ttc at bay. Who knows, she could be on to something. Maybe this month Frank and I should head to my Grandparents. haha.

I can read the nerves coming out in you about your friend. I can imagine that it will be hard on you, it would be hard on me as well. Know that I will be thinking about you, sending you lots of postive energy. Your girlfriend sounds like a really great friend if she would be willing to hid her own preg for your sake. (I know you don't know for sure if she is) Sounds to me like she is really considerate of your feelings. That is aweseome, friends like that are hard to find. I know you would probably want to know and you can always ask her if you suspect and you think you can handle it. I think you can. You are a lot stronger then you give yourself credit. I read it in your posts, I can feel it. You have your down days (just like me), but you always come back stronger then you were the last time. You will be just fine, I know it, I have faith in you, have faith in yourself and enjoy your weekend away from it all.

You are right about the marriage test. Frank and I were married 10/29/05 and we have been through so much already. I look at the "tests" that we were handed and how we handled them and are handeling them. I know 100% with all my heart and soul that we will get through anything. We have also been through a tremendous amount with family problems, (I will share that with you someday in private) we continue to make it through them and we are so much stronger as individuals and as a couple. Frank is my soul mate, I could not be happier with him. I feel the exact same way about Frank as you do about Sonny.

I believe I am going to start the B-6. I figure what do I have to lose right? You reminded me of how well it had helped me with my moods reading your posts. I think I will go for it. I just want to double check and see what my prenatal has in it. What prenatal on you on? I am on PreCare. I think I might skip the Vit C, I eat a lot of fruit, and drink pretty much oj. I would hate to over due it.

It really is amazing how well we know our bodies. Yesterday when I went for my u/s she told me I had 1 follicle on the right (she started checking the right first), I said oh, well I think I may have something on the left too. Sure enough there were 2! I could just tell, I felt the crampness I get. I can usually tell exactly when I ovulated. I get tremendous pain and it lasts for less than an hour, I have minor cramping before and some after, but it is really intense for a short while. My nurse told me that is the fluid inside the follicle with the egg. When the follicle bursts the fluid is released and that causes cramping.

What ov predictor do you use? I have never used one, just the over the counter opt tests.

I must run, hubby's calling for help.

Liz

Good morning Slatka -

The humidity is back!!! yuck Sorry just had to get that out. haha

Well, I am back from my tests. It really was not as bad as I expected. The worst was the sex on demand at 5:15am. Frank said to me "you are making this really hard on me (or not) when you keep yawning and rubbing your eyes." I had to laugh, he is so right, but I could't help it. I am not a morning person to begin with and then to have to preform ontop of it. That is a tough one.

Anyway, the test was in the re's words "supurb". The count looks great, mucus is good, so we are good to go without the iui this month. I actually got to see the little swimmers under the microscrope. It is amazing, there they are swimming around, millions of them. I still can't understand how it can be so hard with all those sperm, you think it would be so easy to get pg. Yeah right, not for me. (us)

Now, on the the other intersting part. On Monday I had 3 follicles, today I have 5. 2 of them develeoped on my right in the past 2 days and they are really growing. Went from 0 to 13 and 12 in 2 days. The other 3 are 17,17 and 15. The nurse said we may do hcg tonight, she has to wait to see how my estrodiol level looks. if its high enough we will do the hcg tonight. She is alittle concerned that if we let it go till tomorrow the other 2 follicles could catch up and then we could possibly have 5 at o time. Now I am gettting nervous again, I am afraid the will call off the cycle. Worry, worry that is all I seem to do anymore. If it's not one thing its another. Hell they are worried about 5 follicles, I can't even conceive 1, what makes them think I can do 5. That is the one side of my thinking and then the other side says oh, no this might not be so good. Well, I will know more this afternoon.

I must run, work is calling,
Take care,
Liz

Hey Liz --

How did this morning's, um, romantic testing go? I hear you about the routine way sex can get -- I like the circus animal image. During peak ttc time, sex is still loving, but it does get a bit more "let's just get to the goal" than before. Sonny has such a willing spirit about it -- I know he doesn't mind; it's more me feeling like I don't want him to feel like he's some sort of trick pony (if that makes sense). We use a lot of good humor and teasing and that seems to help. Though we did have the good luck to conceive at my parents-in-law's place, it is kind of tough to sneak off and be private; I just give up and assume everyone knows what we are doing anyway! Maybe, like your friends says, there is something to being in another, less familiar place and conception. I know our bed has become this "shrine to baby-making" and it is nice to vary things.

Well, I hope things turned out well from their testing of the mucus and sperm -- so very clinical, but necessary. I know you're nervous, but try to think of it that you are getting more information, more knowledge and that can only be helpful. It is what it is -- it is much better to know the results so you can go forward down the right path to conceive.

Perhaps the bloating is from ovulation? Progesterone causes me to bloat a bit around ovulation time, though not every month. I'm on CD 9 so you're about 3 days ahead of me...could very well be the hormones surging for you. Maybe they could tell you something at the docs??

Good -- try the B-6. Vitamin C you probably get in your diet; I get some, but not the amount they recommend. It's better to eat Vit C than take another pill, so you should be good. I take an over the counter pre-natal, Simply One; it's from a health foods store. That doesn't make it better, necessarily, but it is free of animal products, that kind of thing.

I just got a notice that there is another message on this thread -- probably you! I will send this and see, then probably write again!

Take care and talk soon -- Slatka

Hi Liz --

Excellent news re: sperm! What kind of a sentence is that! Only we women here would understand it. I'm sure Frank is pretty excited. Well, seriously, this saves you the additional discomfort, worry, and expense of IUI -- that is terrific!

It sounds like good and possibly worrying news about the follicles, though from what I understand it really isn't bad news at all. They are just concerned that you might have multiples, it sounds like. I don't know how likely that is in general anyway, so try not to worry (yes, I know!). You'll have the plan by tonight.

Someday, privately, you'll have to tell me about what family issues have been difficult for you guys this past year, if you want to. I can sympathize -- sometimes it feels like when one thing doesn't go right, other areas of your life crowd around to make it worse.

I am still laughing over what Frank said about you yawning and rubbing your eyes and that making it hard on him -- or not! Hysterical! And so true!

Hang in there and keep me posted. Think of those follicles -- there is such potential in them this month! (ANd yes, doesn't it seem illogical that there are millions of sperm, yet it seems so hard for at least one to get to that egg?????Why??? It's got to be a special, magical sperm, it seems sometimes....).

Talk to you soon -
Slatka

Hey Slatka -

I just have a min, but I had to write quick. Frank is on his was home and we have to work on a ditch before the rain comes.

I got my results... My esrodiol is 559, that is the highest it has ever been. Tonight we will do the trigger shot and I will ovulate in approx 36 hours. The final count on the follicles is 2 at 17 and 1 at 15. She is not sure the 15 will make it, but we have 2 great ones. Now, the fun begins. :) I am trying not to get my hopes up, but I am trying to keep positive and most of all relax and enjoy the b-dancing! :)

I will write more later, work is always calling. :)

Take care,
Liz

Hi Liz --

Hope the shot went well last night, as well as shots can go, I guess. I know it is hard, but try not to be nervous -- from what I understand, things really look good! You are doing all you can to ensue the best possible outcome, and that's all you can do. You've got a caring, expert team behind you, including Frank and, really, all of us here (we're at least experts in emotion and experience). Think about how all these good signs are converging and try to enjoy the next day or two and let it happen -- yeah, great advice we've all heard a thousand times. And I know how hard it is to take.

For me, really, the hardest times during this ttc are during the two week wait -- right now, I am optimistic, I feel like we have a chance, I feel like, this month with be different. It is as I head toward my period, as signs and symptoms begin and I try to convince myself to keep hoping....that is when the nervousness and disappointment creep in. But right now -- be positive!

Thank you for your email. I sometimes forget we are not having totally private conversations! And though I haven't yet written anything I would mind others reading, I can see myself thinking I'm just having a discussion with you Liz and perhaps share too much! Though I have to say, this forum is very respectful and polite and grateful, compared to some I've seen. So, anyway, I will send you along an email soon, perhaps when I return from Toronto on Monday or this afternoon, if I get a breather to myself earlier! I would love to hear what's going on with you, what has gone on...and I appreciate you willing to share it. I'm thinking we will find ourselves more similar the more we talk...

Well, it's still early! This means I have time to clean up before heading to the airport at 1:30. See how well I plan things? Ha, ha.

Today is the start of a new chance, a new opportunity -- good luck! Take care and talk to you soon -

Slatka